No NCR defence: Accused in truck attack on London, Ont. family cannot argue mental defect

Veltman to serve five life sentences CTV London’s Nick Paparella explains Nathaniel Veltman’s sentencing and whether his actions constitute terrorism.

A Windsor jury learned Friday Nathaniel Veltman cannot argue he is not criminally responsible (NCR) because of his mental illnesses.

Section 16.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada reads, “No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.”

Dr. Julian Gojer was hired by defence lawyers for Veltman to assess their client for trial and he was asked by the court to assess Veltman for a possible NCR defence.

“I cannot say Mr. Veltman is NCR,” Gojer testified Friday.

Gojer based his opinion, detailed in a report, on an initial 18-hour interview with Veltman while at Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre and various appointments with the accused since then.

Although Gojer has been on the stand off and on since Oct. 24, this is the first time the jury is learning the detail, as it was offered in cross-examination by Crown Attorney Jennifer Moser.

“I didn’t see any aspect of the assessment that impacts on criminal responsibility,” Gojer testified. “To me, it was a fairly easy opinion. He didn’t have a defence [for NCR].”

In his examination in chief by defence lawyer Christopher Hicks, Gojer has told the jury Veltman suffers from several mental illnesses including obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), autism spectrum disorder (ASD), depression, anxiety and complex trauma.

ADVERSE EFFECTS OF PSILOCYBIN

Gojer has also testified at the time of the offences Veltman was experiencing “adverse effects” of consumption of psilocybin — commonly known as magic mushrooms — approximately 40 hours earlier.

Veltman said he was in a “dream-like state” that “depersonalized” him and left him feeling “detached from reality.”

Gojer told the jury Thursday those effects caused Veltman to focus on his obsessions of avenging alleged crimes perpetrated by Muslims on white people, and not on the possible consequences of his actions.

“Could these effects have impacted on his [Veltman’s] ability to foresee the consequences of his actions?” Hicks asked Gojer.

“Yes,” he told the jury. “Based on his descriptions of having trouble with [how he] perceived reality.”

On cross examination, Moser asked about the articles on psilocybin Gojer used to formulate his opinions.

She specifically asked questions about an online survey of nearly 1,400 respondents who were asked about their adverse reactions to psilocybin.

Of them, Gojer testified 24 per cent of respondents reported an adverse effect.

Moser pointed out however only three people had adverse effects similar to what Veltman reported and of them, only one of the three said they were in a “dream-like state.”

Moser noted there was no way to know if each person was legitimate or to question them on their dosage, since it was online.

Gojer confirmed for the jury it was only after a September 2023 meeting with Veltman, after the trial had started, that Gojer started to look into the issue of adverse effects of psilocybin.

 

INCONSISTENCES IN TESTIMONY VERSUS STATEMEMENTS TO DOCTOR

Moser spent a lot of time Friday comparing Veltman’s statements to Gojer against his testimony at trial.

“I have given all of his notes which clearly speaks volumes as to what he was thinking based on what he told me, which contradicts some of the things he said on the stand; some of the crucial things he said on the stand,” Gojer testified.

For instance, Moser said in Veltman’s first appointment with the doctor in July 2021, he told Gojer, “I just went out thinking about killing Muslims” and that the psilocybin “emboldened” him to act.

Moser asked why statements like that were not referenced by Gojer in his examination in chief.

“This was you Dr. Gojer picking one of the new versions Mr. Veltman gave you,” Moser suggested, which Gojer denied, who argued his evidence was based on the questions he was asked by the defence as just “one of the explanations” for what happened.

 

CROWN QUESTIONS MENTAL ILLNESS DIAGNOSES

Moser also questioned some of the mental health diagnoses Gojer said Veltman has.

For instance, she noted for the jury, while Veltman was in hospital in Ottawa for a month in spring 2023, staff didn’t observe any behaviour associated with OCD and social workers further noted he didn’t meet the test for an OCD diagnosis.

Gojer also confirmed for the jury he based much of his diagnosis about autism spectrum disorder on Veltman’s own statements and not on any clinical tests.

Finally, Gojer confirmed Veltman refused to let the doctor speak with his mother or five siblings. Gojer was only able to speak with Veltman’s father about their history.

“I would have loved to have spoken with his mother,” Gojer told the jury.

Moser agreed and said it would have been beneficial to get collateral information or a family history to confirm what the Crown called Veltman’s “claim of childhood trauma.”

The trial will continue Monday afternoon.